Curse

Dahl · Nov 20, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

It's kind of a waste of time to preach to people about how monks aren't just tools. They don't care, nor do they listen. Whenever I'm monking, if someone treats me like a tool, I don't explain, I don't whine, I don't leave.

I sit down, and enjoy the fireworks. It gets them frustrated until the entire group turns against the moron who discriminated against me. Then we usually start the mission over replacing the loudmouth.

Wrath · Nov 20, 2005, 07:51 AM // 07:51

I think some people take pve too seriously. Sure, I'll do everything I can to keep people alive, but I'm not going to cry if somebody dies because they don't know how to shake aggro, or atleast bring one defensive skill. Don't bitch me out because you chose to stand there and tank 5 avicaras as an ele. If anybody dies in seconds flat in PVE they are certainly doing something wrong. Take insults with a grain of salt.

And there are bad monks out there. But I would think the proportion of bad monks to bad players of any other class is probably pretty close. It's just that when you get a bad monk people notice it because they die. Or because they're using some ridiculous skillbar with firestorm or something.

Of course there are times when you should take a hard look at how you play your character. Consider swapping skills around, even if you don't think it was your fault the group failed the mission. If you find yourself always running out of energy, try bringing a skill for energy management. Or even try signet of devotion.

I know when I'm playing with a good group when I always have energy left over after a fight. Conversely it's when you play with a bad group that you expend all of your energy and somebody dies, and then you get insulted. In either case, learning how to shake aggro and having a decent tank in your party goes a long way.

The best way to keep yourself out of the idiot parties is to group with friends or guildmates. And if I do PuG, I'd hardly ever want to be invited to a 7/8 PuG group with no other monk. I'm not trying to be difficult, but unless I know most of the team is competent I probably won't bother joining. It's not worth my time and effort to be an afterthought in somebody's party.

Keyote · Nov 20, 2005, 11:23 AM // 11:23

I play a monk and I totally understand when people say we're snobbish, but you have to understand that it's usually through frustration, not thinking we're better than others. A huge numbers of players seem to have no idea how monks operate, and they'll put us in a position where it's impossible to keep them alive while making sure we and the rest of the group dont die in the process. When we get all these group invites, we know that picking the wrong one means we'll be getting the blame when someone else makes a mistake.

A monks healing range is quite small, our energy is precious and only bad monks use up all their energy keeping everyone at full health all the time. So if you're slowly taking damage and approach 50% health, it's not because I'm ignoring you, it's because any minute now a vulnerable class might get agro and use up tons of my energy to stop him dyng in 5 seconds.

So when people shout "heal!" or "res me!", I tell them not to tell a monk how to do their job, because if theres any way possible to heal or res, i'd have done it. That may sound snobbish, but most other classes wouldn't put up with half the crap we take about not doing their job when it's entirely down to their own ignorance.

Xenrath · Nov 20, 2005, 12:34 PM // 12:34

I'd like to suggest those who complain about monks try to play one themselves for a large chunk/most of the campaign. Eventually you will understand why it's possible monk players can (possibly but not necessarily) get cynical and fed up or whatever. As for Malchiel's flamebait post, most of the points raised in that apply just as well to all the other classes.

Oh and if you feel someone isn't such a great monk (in your opinion, note do you play as a monk?) at the very least they are TRYING, think about that next time. They didn't have to help you or the team, and someone trying is better than nothing at all.

Old Dood · Nov 20, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Oh...yeah I have been Yelled at because I didn't HEAL them enough....Well when they run way ahead of the group and do not look at the mana I am spamming...meaning I need a 10sec regen...then don't expect me to heal you if you are out of range.

This is why I always spam my spells...so people can see how much I am energy I am using on them.

Anyways...it has been a real big problem anymore since I have found a great mature guild that knows to hold up and take down the bad guys a little at a time. Planning goes a long way...

Sister Rosette · Nov 20, 2005, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

I play a monk and I totally understand when people say we're snobbish, but you have to understand that it's usually through frustration, not thinking we're better than others. A huge numbers of players seem to have no idea how monks operate, and they'll put us in a position where it's impossible to keep them alive while making sure we and the rest of the group dont die in the process. When we get all these group invites, we know that picking the wrong one means we'll be getting the blame when someone else makes a mistake.

A monks healing range is quite small, our energy is precious and only bad monks use up all their energy keeping everyone at full health all the time. So if you're slowly taking damage and approach 50% health, it's not because I'm ignoring you, it's because any minute now a vulnerable class might get agro and use up tons of my energy to stop him dyng in 5 seconds.

So when people shout "heal!" or "res me!", I tell them not to tell a monk how to do their job, because if theres any way possible to heal or res, i'd have done it. That may sound snobbish, but most other classes wouldn't put up with half the crap we take about not doing their job when it's entirely down to their own ignorance.

Quoted FTW

Old Dood · Nov 20, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Yes...and sometimes we are waiting for them to go below 50% so Word of Healing & Divine Boon together gets them back up to snuff!

Vexille · Nov 20, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Just a quick note, this is rather a reflex of how mature players are then a consequence of the game itself.

The game is played a lot by immature teenagers that from time to time like to piss other people of and act like an idiot.Of course there are mature teenagers playing the game as well.But the balance is common and very healthy for every society;

And in my opinion the average PvE player itself isn't very good, and that's why so many people don't like public groups. This would change if everyone did PvP more, but since i read a review of Guild Wars that stated the only PvP part of Guild Wars PvE was the pre-searing mission, I don't know how many players know they can PvP in PvE.

Sorry if i'm repeating what someone already said, because i might have skipped one or other post.

jules · Nov 20, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Warrior Dood

Yes...and sometimes we are waiting for them to go below 50% so Word of Healing & Divine Boon together gets them back up to snuff!

I used to get a kick whenever WoH worked properly back when it was buggy (at least I used to think it was)

Monks are definitely overworked and underappreciated. Whenever I see a monk doing a half decent job I feel it's my duty to tell them they did well.

Have you hugged a monk today?

imanixon2 · Nov 20, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

One thing that really bothers me in missions or even just quests with PUGs is the constant doodling on the corner map. If I was on say my ele, I wouldnt care as much, but with the way my screen is set up for monking, the life bars are very close to the map. It's a very big distraction as a monk, for me at least. Anyway, I politely ask the members of the group to stop this, explaining that I dont like it and that its a distraction. I give them maybe 2-3 chances, most often 2...one warning and then a second chance. I also tell them that if they dont stop they will lose their monks(my husband is usually with me on his monk too) because of the distraction. If they do it a third time, I leave..no warning, then of course I see other members of the group back in the city, begging for us.

Once, we even let this ranger die because he wouldnt let go of his vampiric bow. Even though his life was slowly draining. He didnt do it, even after giving him a regular bow to hold when not fighting. He still didnt switch, so we watched him die, twice. Both times we told him he was killing himself. Then some guy rezed him, the ranger said something like "someone's nice here" and then the rezzer guy left. Oh well.

Feng Leung · Nov 20, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

It's always fun to be a monk, getting constantly chased, while still trying to save everyone else. Swear to god being a monk is seriously boring also, all you do is heal, heal, protection, remove hex/condition, heal, and rez. Yeah you can smite, but is smiting going to overcome a good nuker? Though in reality, monks are the backbone of any group, unless people actually start wising up and bring good self heals it will never happen. *cough* w/mo's *cough*

Teufel Eldritch · Nov 20, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Henchie Monks are better than most human Monks. Sure hench have thier probs but I will take a hench Monk over a unknown pug Monk anyday.

As I have mentioned before in this thread I'm sure.... I used to play Monk myself(still do for guildies) but I have since quit as I got tired of taking so much crap from ignorant players, not to mention staring at the Red Bars O' Life gets really, really, really old.

Monking is a chore. Monking sucks.

2_fingers · Nov 20, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

*Warning, Wall of Text Ahead, Dun say i didnt warn u *

First things first, I play a Nec Warrior n a Monk. Have played a Ranger, Mesmer and even an ele. I've tried all the classes so i know how it feels at times.

I come from both side of the fence. Apart from the people in SF, how many of our so called tankers actually use a stance? How many actually use a knight's piece/rune of absorbtion? There's no way in hell we can heal someone whose life drops in 1/2 a sec because he was not wearing the proper gear. I play a tank - there are so many means and methods to avoid damage as a warrior - yet most of the time in pve, none of the tanks actually know how to take dmg.

Another reason? Instead of healing the partymembers, we end up healing ourselves. Y? Because the group aggoed makes a beeline for the "softer" targets. PvE missions can be ridiculously simple, if the tank actually went up and body blocked those running melee mobs. Really simple thought process : tanks that actually do tank.

Monks energy is not infinite. One of the best methods of having infinite energy is having OoB - but that means we cant use WoH, a super heal. Bad trade off. But sometimes, we just cant heal if the dmg sustained is too large. Usually, in GW, most of the mobs can be healed - if the dmg is surreal, then something is wrong with the WHOLE build and not just the monk. Say i go down to sf in a 5 man farm group - we got no problems taking big groups simply because our build was designed to do that. If the whole build sucked, then there is no way to effectively execute anything. Similar in pvp. The reason y IWAY works decently is simply because its effective at dealing dmg. The reason y Healing balls of 8 man monks work because they are effective at curing dmg. In order for a build to be successful, the healer n the rest of the group must mesh together. Sometimes, the reason why there's not enough dmg to kill an enemy fast is because in many instances, classes like Ranger/Mes/Ele are ignored.

That said. I;ve seen sh*tty monks, both prot n heal. Eg. Some do not know the value of a well timed healing seed, dun know how to deal with conditions and hexes. Some just spam heal party thinking that would save the day. (unless say u have a glyph of energy, then by all means go ahead). Some are just plain 11year old kids spamming swearwords without even realising what they are doing. Are they idiots? Yes.

My solution? I form my own party. I get guildies to help out or i call friends. Hell, a simple 5 man oro farm i do with my buddies is something that i'm reluctant to trust with a 6 man PUG. I form my own party, (unless its a farming run), if in 10 min i dont see the class i want, be it a mesmer ranger monk or warrior, i just pay a visit to mhenlo and off i go. If someone in my party says henchies suck, i boot him and get a henchie (that doesnt say henchies suck) and move.

GoldToof · Nov 20, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

There are some stupid monks out there (most of them have monk chars for farming purposes). I have a monk character (not for farming, I have a warrior for that) so I can agree with the monk side of the fence. I also have a warrior and an ele so I can agree with the non monk side as well. This is a problem with no possible solution in sight. Unless GW incorperates some sort of a contract between players, but to me that sounds rediculous. Monks do not have infinite energy, AC is much lower so they can't take as much damage. If you see a monk in trouble help him out, and if you see signs of a snobbish monk beffore mission then BOOT HIS ASS. Im tired of these monks giving the rest of us a bad name.

Age · Nov 20, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

This is why, don't take monk for PvE, seriously. Well except for UW/FoW. Too bad they don't have lvl 20 NPC healers in ToA, otherwise I'd probably prefer that to most monks standing around there too.

Get the henchies.

1) They do a better job than some unknown monk.
2) They will never leave your group.
3) They never whine or bitch
4) They're smarter than most monks
5) They don't have an attitude problem
6) They don't go afk
7) And so on...

Have you hugged brother mhenlo today?

I can't tell you the number of times a monk left a group.
I can't tell you the number of times the monk can't actually heal/or protect.
I can't tell you the number of times I'm in a group with a useless (stupid

) monk.
I can't tell you the number of times monks started to sound snobbish, and go about bossing everyone. *snicker*

Oh that being said. "hey you stupid monks, join my group!!1" <-- calling anyone stupid is unlikely to get them in your group. And psshtt it's not exclusive to just monks ;p

You would rather have a henchie in mission especailly an important one to keep you healed up.They are no where near as good as real player Monk is the ones I see and you can't change their skills around.The time I stop useing henchies is at Naloni Academy.The problem is everyone is so uppity or nervous and want to get it ober an done with as soon as possible that is why the missions in GW is a failiar to teach those how to cooperate between each other being a cooperative game.If I had my way i would pull the missions and replace them with quests and I certainly wouldn't put skills to be capped in missions you should get all even elites by quests not missions.

Mesmerized · Nov 20, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I've NEVER charged anyone for me to join their group. When I'm not keeping my guildies healed up in low missions or just hanging out helping, I'm going around the Ring of Fire and Shiverpeaks helping anyone who needs a monk. I also don't think monking sucks or is boring, personally I think its the most fast paced class. You need to watch your ass on screen, watch health bars, make split second healing decisions, watch your energy management... AND argue with the warrior who's health isnt at 100% the entire time.

IGN: Eldarin Ithuliel.

Divinus Stella · Nov 20, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Monks work the hardest in teams and get the most shit for it, i find healing good fun for a while, but i'd like to go to UW as a Mesmer or air ele once or twice, just can never get the teams for it, people either think mesmers suck or are already full with warriors.

Also when healing i find i get less drops, people often tell me its BS, but i swear by it, i think monks should get more drops rather than less.

SlayerD · Nov 20, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Well seem some people dont appreciate us human monk, they rather take a henchman here what HENCHMAN stick to you like a glue they will die if you die they dont know how to runaway

AND yesterday really piss me off our only warrior in a group decide to wait for and item to be unreserve so he can pick it up [well that what he said he was doing] while the rest of us die fighting and he blame me for not healing

Gadenp · Nov 20, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48

I am pro healing monk. I think human monks can be great, compared to henchy.

Firstly, Alesia always loves to get into group fight, and worst yet seldom runs when she is being gangbanged. Also she does stupid things, all the time. The amount of times I wanted her to run away and res me later or res me first so I can run instead of res another NPC, who would not, just grows larger and larger.

Some human monks can also sucks, especially those that M/W that wield a sword and seldom heals

. Or those that get a God complex, and give the team tons of crap. But mostly I think most human HEALER/PROTECTOR monks are better then henchy. Surpisingly a human monk + Lina or Alesia makes a great team

.

As I have played a monk, I must say that:
1. We do not have infinity energy
2. Spells do have reload and casting times
3. If enemies attack monks, pls note that we will mostly heal themselves
4. If enemies attack, monk skills have high chances of being interrupted and we get stunned reload time on healing skill(=bad for all)
5, I cannot believe the amt of times I have seem pple stand on AoE spells, and expect monks to heal them

6. We seem to get less loot
7. If groups are split, come on how are we going to run up and down to heal and not die? Also factor in healing & running time
8. Pple get some better armor, or mages stop rushing and warriors boost your armor. Many times I end up mass healing one guy who loves to rush or is a mage attacking at close combat, and I run out of energy and pple complain why I don't heal group faster.

9. We die fast, so STOP RUSHING! AND PROTECT US!
10. Monks stop wielding swords and rushing in, our job is to heal not FARM or ATTACK.

sybban · Nov 20, 2005, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Singer

My name is Storm Singer and I approve this message

The exact advice I've given to a guildie recently having the same kinds of troubles.

On the other hand, if a monk is being the craphead and you are warrior just don't tank for him/her and see how they like it.

It works, they start crying when they realize how not-so-god-like they are.

It's the monks who should be cutting everyone else a break